Steve Brown | God’s Not Mad At You | Steve Brown, Etc.

Matthew Porter: You know him, you love him, and he has a brand new book that's going to help you really experience God's grace. Let's talk about it with Steve Brown on Steve Brown, etc.
Guest (Male): He's an old white guy, an author, broadcaster, and seminary professor who's sick of religion. And he's brought friends. Please welcome Steve Brown, etc.
Matthew Porter: That is the name of the program. Thanks for hanging out with us. My name is Matthew Porter. I am not the old white guy. I am a future old white guy. And that future's getting closer every day. I don't mind telling you. Our producer, Jeremy, is in the little glass booth. Jeremy works at the happiest place on earth, right here at Key Life.
Steve Brown: Oh, that's true.
Matthew Porter: That's true.
Steve Brown: During donut day.
Matthew Porter: That's well. They're donut day. Hold on. Our one man IT department, John Myers, is in the tech bunker. John was just looking at the onshore activities for Viking cruises.
Steve Brown: Ah. Pillaging and plundering.
Matthew Porter: Should that not be the only onshore activities for Viking cruises? Okay. Dr. George Bingham is the president of Key Life. George says if you order two copies of Steve's new book at keylife.org/notmadbook, he will give you free shipping. If you order 100 copies, he'll put on a grass skirt and do the hula.
Steve Brown: That's a good one.
Cathy: That's good.
Matthew Porter: Somebody should.
Cathy: Oh, somebody please.
Matthew Porter: Somebody.
Steve Brown: No, what you should do is say if you order 100, that will keep me from doing that.
Matthew Porter: There's a school, there's somebody somewhere that could put this to the test. Let's do this. Kathy Wyatt is the soft feminine side of the program. Kathy says today we celebrate National Lazy Day. Technically it was back in August, but
Cathy: Like
Steve Brown: Never quite got around to it.
Matthew Porter: Whatever. Whatever. Wow, today is a big day. Our guest, I'm just going to do it officially just to just to check it off. You don't need me to do this introduction, but Steve Brown is a radio broadcaster and the founder of Key Life Network. He's a former pastor. He is also a frequent in-demand speaker and visiting seminary lecturer. He is the author of many books including How to Talk So People Will Listen, Hidden Agendas, Talk the Walk, and Laughter and Lament. Steve's latest book is called God's Not Mad at You, Confronting the Lies of Guilt, Shame, Fear, and Regret. Steve, I've spent the morning reading your book.
Cathy: Couple hours at least.
Matthew Porter: Yeah.
Steve Brown: You know, it's it's funny to sit in this chair. It feels there's an old story about a guy was walking down the street and a car almost hit him, and he jumped out of the way just in time and the car turned around and came back for him and he noticed there was a squirrel driving the car. And he jumped out of the way again and the squirrel came back at him another time and then stopped where he was, rolled the window down and said it's not as easy as it looks. Well, Matthew hosts this program often when I can't. And I'm always nervous because I need this job. But you it is it is a comfortable place to not be responsible. And it is an uncomfortable place to be responsible.
Matthew Porter: You have the best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds.
Cathy: Matthew, you did hold the book upside down though when you picked it up.
Matthew Porter: Did I?
Cathy: You might want to remedy that.
Matthew Porter: I thought that was a statement. Listen, it's a creative choice. I feel a little bit like Admiral James Stockdale in '92 at the Democratic at the at the vice presidential debate, who am I? Why am I here?
Matthew Porter: Well, we're here to let people know about this great new book that I'm going to hold up the right way. God's not mad at you, confronting the lies of guilt, shame, fear, and regret. Nobody made you write another book, but you something said I got to do this. What what's the story?
Steve Brown: You know, on on a recent etc. broadcast, I was talking about how God gave me against my will a heart for people because I'm not naturally that kind of person. And that goes with things like evangelism. I have a real burden for lost people who are in the darkness and I've got the answer. I'm like a guy's got a cancer cure and everybody I know's got cancer and I and I cannot not give them the cure. But that goes bigger than that. It doesn't it isn't just in the lost, it's where people hurt. It's where people are lonely and afraid, where they're so guilty and they have so many regrets. And I have for more years than most of our listeners have been alive, have been dealing with those people. And and I care. I really care. And another reason is that I have exactly the same things. I'm lonely sometimes and afraid and sometime. I have so many regrets. That's the horrible. There's a good thing about living a long time, but there's some downsides too and one of them, more regrets than you can possibly imagine. You know, I can just stop and think for a little while and I start blushing. And so that's where we all are. And I thought, you know, I'm going to take a lot of years of ministry, many of it failing, many of it not I'm not proud of. But I was there and I'm still here. And I know what works and I know what doesn't work. And the first thing that I know and I said in the book, nothing fixes it perfectly until until we get home. We live in a fallen world and until we get home, we're still going to have some regrets. We're still going to feel guilty. We're still going to be afraid. We're still going to experience shame. But it honestly can be a lot better. It really can. And and this book was written to say how I and not just me. I dedicated this book to you guys. The staff at Key Life because everybody here actually had a part in this book and I mean they had a lot more meetings than I could even attend. Working out the details and the kinks and Robin Eddie and tell me where I screwed it up and trying to. So this was kind of a this was kind of a joint project at Key Life and that's why I dedicated it to the people at Key Life. But the people here and a lot of other Christians who've lived long enough and sinned big enough and made a mess out of it enough, we've learned some things about that. And this book is that. It won't fix you. You're not fixable till you get home. But I promise you that this book is honest and that it'll make a difference and you'll find it helpful. And if you don't, you have no taste.
Matthew Porter: Looking at the subtitle makes me think of I think of like people who are like crazy environmentalists and they're like, okay, the best thing for the for the world is if there was no people and that would be better for the environment. It's one of those things where you they have gone to the most logical conclusion based on a deeply flawed premise.
Steve Brown: It's true.
Matthew Porter: They start in the they start on the wrong mark, but then they follow it logically and I feel like that's where a lot of us end up in the fear and the guilt.
Steve Brown: We really do.
Matthew Porter: It's logical if the premise is correct that God doesn't like you. You got to back all the way up and reassess your relationship with them and who he is. We mess it up from the beginning, don't we?
Steve Brown: We really do. That's the big lie. It's right there. And you know, there are all kinds of theological implications of that statement. You know, the wrath of God is poured out on unbelief and and people and and I get that. I understand that. But I've learned to say and I believe it's true that God will never ever be mad at you if you belong to Christ. And if you don't belong to Christ, if you'll run to him for God's sake, just run to him, you'll find that he won't be angry at you either. And so there's a sense in which that really is universal. We've painted a God who takes delight in roasting people over a fire. May God have mercy on us.
Matthew Porter: Hmm.
Steve Brown: He didn't tell us that. And so if you really study the Bible, you find all and that brings me back to what this is about. You know, religion makes you weird. You I was talking to you the other day and I was answering for the first time. We get lots of questions, but I was answering a question from a guy at the University of Pennsylvania who said there were two people in his church that were that believed the world was flat.
Matthew Porter: Really believe the world was flat.
Steve Brown: And and I thought, I never encountered anybody. And I said that to you and you said you're not going to believe this, but this movement is flouring everywhere among Christians. That didn't surprise me.
Matthew Porter: Yeah.
Steve Brown: We will believe a lot of wrong things and weird. Christianity can make you weird.
Matthew Porter: Absolutely right. We agree that we have a problem when we have an incorrect assessment of who God is and who we are in relationship to him and a lot of people listening right now are going to think, yeah, I just need more religion. Let's slow it down, man. On the other side of the break, we'll talk about how religion might not be the solution that you think it is, it might just kind of make us a little bit more weird. We're talking about the book God's Not Mad at You. Go to keylife.org/notmadbook to learn all about it. We'll be right back.
Guest (Male): Whoa, this place is huge. Welcome to the Vault, your home for classic sermons from Steve from the 90s, the 80s, even all the way back to the early 70s. The Vault is a one-of-a-kind online experience where you can explore more than three decades of grace-filled messages. Get the details and check out our free audio sample at keylife.org/vault. That's keylife.org/vaut.
Steve Brown: Hi, this is Steve Brown, and in case you didn't know, one of the main reasons Key Life exists is to remind believers that God isn't mad at his children. Why am I telling you this? Because our weekly email, Key Life Connection, takes the best of the videos, articles, and puts them right in your inbox. We'd love for you to try it. It's free. Go to keylife.org/subscribe.
Matthew Porter: Thank you for joining us here on Steve Brown, etc. and we are talking to said Steve Brown. His new book is called God's Not Mad at You, confronting the lies of guilt, shame, fear, and regret. And hopefully God willing, Steve is not regretting letting me get behind his microphone today.
Steve Brown: Only a fear for my own job.
Matthew Porter: Thank you.
Steve Brown: You really do shine when you do that.
Matthew Porter: Well, I I I do say I I have gotten a front row seat at a world class broadcaster for the last eight years. And maybe I have picked up a few things.
Steve Brown: Your job is secure. I just want you to know that.
Guest (Male): You know, can I ask, I mean you you kind of inevitably put guilt, shame, fear, and regret together. Maybe in a different order. I can't remember. But and and associate those with the with the lies. Kind of from a, I don't know, structural standpoint, do you see those typically occurring together or or individually and is that the typical risk from believing the lies?
Steve Brown: Yeah, it is. You can get specific and I detailed it out in a number of chapters with the lies. But as a matter of fact, and I said this I think in the introduction, but it's been a long time ago since I wrote it, but that they they do overlap and whatever you say of one is probably true of the others. In terms of the lies that are believed, every one of the lies bring guilt, shame, and fear, and regret. And and again back to what you would said. Religion, and I'm not against religion. I wrote in the introduction that I'm not anti-church. I'm really for the church. I believe the most important thing that we can do in our culture is to identify with the church, to join it and support it. But I sound that way in the book on occasion, but I'm talking about us, not them. Because I love the church. But we all know that and we know about ourselves and about other people, of people who've turned weird. The religion got to him was like a disease. And they became self-righteous. They became condemning. They became so guilt-ridden, they couldn't sleep at night. They are constantly looking for errors in other people in their doctrine. Constantly on guard and they call it convictions. It's not convictions, it's lies and it'll kill you.
Matthew Porter: Is part of the weirdness, um where we don't want to share with others what we're going through, we steer around that You Two moment that that changes everything. Because you're like, I can't let you know. I don't feel safe or whatever it is. And that kind of has a warping effect.
Steve Brown: It really does. You know, we're sick as our secrets. And that's a cliche, but like most cliches, it has truth to it. Now, that's not a brief for standing up and telling your ten greatest sins to your worst enemy. God didn't call us to be stupid. But it does mean an open attitude that is authentic when it stands before people as a Christian. You know, we Christians, the most important gift that we have to give to the world is first our love for each other and secondly, the confession of our sins. You know, we go out like we're good and you're bad, but if you'll follow Jesus, you can be good like me. But that's not our message. It never was our message. The gospel is you're screwed up and I'm screwed up and the difference is that Jesus loves me when I'm screwed up and he'll love you too if you'll run to him. That's powerful.
Matthew Porter: It really is.
Steve Brown: Yeah.
Cathy: Gosh. We've been waiting for this for so long and now it's here.
Steve Brown: And your tongue died.
Cathy: Well, no, I just don't, I almost don't know where to start. Um, one of the questions that comes to mind is um is the one about um why is the statement your your past defines your future a lie? Um, people, you know, at different times in our lives, a lot a lot of people decide, you know, I've got all this past stuff and so, okay, I'm going to go and see a counselor and you know, then I'm going to get myself get myself straightened out and um, so it doesn't always work.
Steve Brown: No, well, it doesn't and it in and by the way, I got to put an addendum to that. I'm not saying your past doesn't affect your present. Of course it does. The places where we're born, abuse, of course that has something to do with it. But what can happen when people go to counselors is that it becomes another addiction and an excuse to wallow in being a victim. And God says you're not a victim, cut it out. You're my child. You you live in the big house, you're not a servant, you live in the big house, you're my child. And I kind of like you. In fact, I can't have a party unless you're around. And all of a sudden the spin gets turned in a different direction. It says, you can be what you dream. Uh but your dreams are going to be the right ones. And and I'm not doing a legalistic thing. You know, you dream you can quit smoking. You can do it. I'm not talking about that. I'm about I'm talking about the dream of living in joy, of laughing easier, of not being so uptight about everything that happens to me, of not having to be the center of everything. And it goes on and on and on and in that sense, I wrote that chapter. And about that particular lie. It's not dumb advice about ignore your counselor. But it's sometimes tell your counselor where to go. That's enough and then go to Jesus because he'll add some things that are really important.
Matthew Porter: You know, I think we can sometimes mentally fall into this idea of like, if I go to counseling, if I do all this stuff, all these four things, guilt, shame, fear, regret. That's going to be a thing of the past. And you're like, hold on, it's going to get better, but you need to have a very sober view of we're still on this side of the veil. You're going to the the fight is going to get better, but there always going to be a part of your life that you have to deal with and go and and and when they happen, run to Jesus with it. I feel like we we go down a wrong road when we get in our mind of
Steve Brown: Oh, it's so true.
Matthew Porter: a little more effort.
Steve Brown: We don't yeah, we don't take seriously the and they are major implications of the fall. The implications of the fall are universal. To individuals and nations. I mean, there isn't a single story of a person or a nation that doesn't reflect the fallen nature of humankind. And maybe we can talk about it on the other side of the break and some things aren't fixable.
Matthew Porter: Yeah.
Steve Brown: But I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, Paul said. And he didn't mean by that statement what you think he meant by that statement.
Matthew Porter: That's called a teaser. That is a teaser. That's pretty good. You should have a radio show.
Steve Brown: And write a book.
Matthew Porter: Yeah. This could go somewhere. Let's see where this Steve guy is going. We'll be right back, guys.
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Guest (Male): This is Pete Dawlinson and if you're a guy, I want to show you how to recover and reclaim an intimate growing relationship with your Heavenly Father. Check out like Father, Like Son, how knowing God as Father changes men, available now at keylife.org/store.
Guest (Male): Believer, I want you to remember that we send about, grace does much more about. And you will run out of sin before God runs out of grace. Grace, the real good news of the gospel. Find it now on keylife.org/store.
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Guest (Male): You know, one of the phrases you use often in talking about grace and associated with the lies associated with that is the concept of kickers.
Steve Brown: Yeah.
Guest (Male): What talk about that? What is that?
Steve Brown: It's where you give grace with one hand and you take it with the other. And I understand that. I've done that when we were talking about the past sermons I preached. It was always my fear that this grace, I have a friend who runs a conference on grace. And after one of the preachers had preached a magnificent sermon, he got up and said, oh God, I hope this is true. And that was such a profound statement. But I but I think everybody who believes and teaches and practices grace at some time think, I hope this is true. So just to make sure if you're a preacher, you add something. Jesus loves you more than you can imagine. And then the kicker, but don't let it go to your head. Or you're forgiven, but don't use it for a license for sin. God loves you, but there are things about him that that he doesn't love. That's it. You know, it's it's giving it with one hand. That's what we got to stop that. That's why the the the gospel is so explosive. It doesn't have any kickers. I'm forgiven and that includes that. My worst sin.
Cathy: Wasn't it Jerry Bridges who said to you one time, Steve, are you sure we're right?
Steve Brown: I still have that note somewhere. He wrote in a note, are you sure we're right? And I thought good heavens, I wonder sometimes. But I am right. I may not be right about politics, but I think I am. I may not right about sociology, but I think I am. But I'm absolutely right about this grace stuff. Underline it and apply it.
Guest (Male): Well, and and because you have grace, you can give grace.
Steve Brown: There it is. Oh, so good.
Guest (Male): Good.
Steve Brown: And you can't. You can only give it to the degree that you've received it.
Guest (Male): Not agreed.
Cathy: Cathy, we got anybody next week?
Matthew Porter: We do.
Cathy: Um, we have uh Ian Simkins with us. Great book, Every Table and Altar, reclaiming connection in a world of division, distraction, and loneliness.
Matthew Porter: Sounds good to me. I'll be here. Hope you guys will be here. Thanks for letting.
Steve Brown: I'll to identify with.
Cathy: Yeah.
Matthew Porter: Absolutely. Make sure you join us again next time. Until then, be safe and stay dangerous.